Opinion | Affirmative Action: 10 Black College Graduates Discuss

Amouki,


23, Md., Democrat, administrative assistant

Not a lot.

Veronique,


36, D.C., Democrat, entrepreneur

Sports.

Michael,


31, Calif., independent, I.T. associate

The entertainment industry.

Roger,


33, Texas, Democrat, real estate agent

Technology.

Jocelyn,


32, Pa., Democrat, entrepreneur

Not much.

Kathryn,


34, Tenn., leftist, venue manager

I was also going to say “nothing.”

Denzel,


28, N.Y., Republican, architecture

I’ll say “technology.”

Celisa,


37, Tenn., Democrat, chief operating officer

I was going to say “nothing.”

Kathryn,


34, Tenn., leftist, venue manager

We still have a crisis with student loan forgiveness. The housing market’s pretty terrible. Infrastructure of most cities is pretty poor.

Amouki,


23, Md., Democrat, administrative assistant

Health care debt is also not going well. Student loans, infrastructure. It’s not good.

Denzel,


28, N.Y., Republican, architecture

It just feels stagnant. After Covid, you want something good to happen right away. But it takes time.

Veronique,


36, D.C., Democrat, entrepreneur

Every major league is doing some cool things that excite Americans. This new movement with pickleball is helping all kinds of people create fellowship and community.

Stéphane,


31, Texas, independent, accountant

As Black people, we’re living in better times than in the past. And a lot of opportunities are opening up because of technology, because of the inclusion of different people in the economy. I think there’s a lot of potential for great things to happen because of that in the future.

Michael,


31, Calif., independent, I.T. associate

I agree about the technological advancements, and so many people are working hard to make sure the country is a better place.

Celisa,


37, Tenn., Democrat, chief operating officer

I said “ahead of us” because I don’t think it could get any worse.

Celisa,


37, Tenn., Democrat, chief operating officer

Both. We went through Covid. We went through so many things over the past few years. Hopefully something better is coming.

Roger,


33, Texas, Democrat, real estate agent

Covid has made us adapt and learn some new things that have made life a bit better. We tend to be more health conscious, for example.

Karis,


34, Ill., Democrat, I.T. professional

“Racism” is a strong word in the United States. But there’s always an awareness when somebody is racially abused and it’s brought to the knowledge of the public.

Jocelyn,


32, Pa., Democrat, entrepreneur

I feel like it’s a split country, because you have some states that are being progressive, and in some states it’s the total opposite, where they’re trying to actually remove Black history from curricula and just trying to eradicate it altogether.

Kathryn,


34, Tenn., leftist, venue manager

I gave it a D because we keep having almost the same discussion over and over in the country. People think the civil rights movement fixed everything. And just when there’s some progress being made, people say, “We’re tired of talking about it. We’re tired of hearing about it.” We go two or three steps backward.

Celisa,


37, Tenn., Democrat, chief operating officer

I definitely agree with Kathryn. I gave it a D. There’s a lot of people that are still ignorant to racism, that don’t believe that it’s here or alive. We face it a lot in our school systems. Social media lets different races know about racism. But Black people see it all day, every day, in our cities, in our schools. I would have given it an F, but we’re at least not slaves anymore.

Celisa,


37, Tenn., Democrat, chief operating officer

Scary.

Denzel,


28, N.Y., Republican, architecture

I would say “OK.”

Kathryn,


34, Tenn., leftist, venue manager

Hard.

Jocelyn,


32, Pa., Democrat, entrepreneur

Depressing.

Roger,


33, Texas, Democrat, real estate agent

Disadvantaged.

Karis,


34, Ill., Democrat, I.T. professional

Normal.

Michael,


31, Calif., independent, I.T. associate

I would say “difficult.”

Veronique,


36, D.C., Democrat, entrepreneur

Challenging.

Stéphane,


31, Texas, independent, accountant

All right.

Amouki,


23, Md., Democrat, administrative assistant

Also challenging.

Kathryn,


34, Tenn., leftist, venue manager

We have to deal with policing issues. We have to deal with discrimination, as far as employment goes. We have to deal with discrimination when it comes to going to the grocery store. There’s so many levels of things that you have to constantly be aware of — of where people think you’re supposed to be.

Kathryn,


34, Tenn., leftist, venue manager

I live in the South. And there’s plenty of places that you go into that will pretty much openly discriminate against any Black person that walks into the store. They’re going to follow you around, things like that.

Jocelyn,


32, Pa., Democrat, entrepreneur

I said “depressing” because, on top of the violence that I feel is more directed to Black people by cops and by civilians, I also feel like the repercussions aren’t equally given to people of other races.

Jocelyn,


32, Pa., Democrat, entrepreneur

So, offhand, an example I can think of is the exposure and story line behind Bill Cosby’s case. Not saying that he was right, but in comparison to white rabbis, white priests, white directors and other white celebrities who have done the same, similar or even worse things, the exposure wasn’t the same. It wasn’t the same exposure as it was when it happened to a Black man. I feel like it’s the case in a lot of different scenarios. Had President Obama had classified documents at his home, it would not be going the same way as it’s going with Trump. Knowing that things are unequal like that is depressing.

Roger,


33, Texas, Democrat, real estate agent

We are human first, despite our color differences. So I think being specific about what kind of space we’re in is not really acceptable to me.

Kathryn,


34, Tenn., leftist, venue manager

Sometimes communities want to come together to specifically discuss their issues within said community. They don’t particularly need input from the whole. I definitely can feel more comfortable with people that I am more like in a variety of ways, even broken down by hobbies or interests.

Celisa,


37, Tenn., Democrat, chief operating officer

When I was younger, I was more in a Black space. As I’ve gotten older, I’m in more of a mixed space. As my income has grown, I don’t fit in as much in purely white or purely Black spaces. I’m in Nashville, too, so sometimes you can be not Black enough or too Black. So you’re, like, in between.

Celisa,


37, Tenn., Democrat, chief operating officer

It depends on the space. If it’s just me on an everyday basis, I feel normal, because a lot of the white people I hang with, we’re similar, we’re all doing the same things. If I’m in certain areas, I’m an entrepreneur. But in other areas, people look at me differently. The energy shifts, and you no longer belong anymore. They look at you differently.

Denzel,


28, N.Y., Republican, architecture

What I heard a lot in my life was “You have to act white” or “Why you acting white?” Like if you’re in a space with a bunch of white people, whether it’s work or something else, if you’re talking proper and stuff, that means you’re acting white. And if you’re with your friends, and you’re talking urban street, there’s a difference. I try to be myself and not try to please other people with the way I talk. I try to stick to my personality and what I know best and try to respect other people’s personalities.

Jocelyn,


32, Pa., Democrat, entrepreneur

I think it’s important, as Black people, to have a space that you can go to with people that can relate to you on that level. But race aside, it’s important to be able to transition into other spaces. But speaking to what Denzel just spoke about, when it comes to saying, “Oh, you speak proper,” it means “You speak right.” If you speak with slang, it equates you to speaking Black. I think it also becomes more of a class thing than a race thing, as well. Or equally as a race thing.

Veronique,


36, D.C., Democrat, entrepreneur

So I come from a first-generation American family. Education is first in our culture and our family. I’m also a big nerd. I visited my future undergrad college during my senior year of high school because my best friends went there. And when I realized there were other Black people who looked, talked and sounded like me, I decided to inquire more. And then I applied, and I went there.

Celisa,


37, Tenn., Democrat, chief operating officer

So I come from a family where we all went to college. I was expected to go to college. I made my decision based on what school gave me the most money at the time. I wanted to go to an H.B.C.U. because I wanted to go where other people look like me. So that was my decision.

Denzel,


28, N.Y., Republican, architecture

I considered going to an H.B.C.U., but the tuition kind of scared me a bit. So I decided to go somewhere closer to the city. The CUNY school I went to had more white and Asian people than Blacks. That was a different experience for me.

Denzel,


28, N.Y., Republican, architecture

Kind of like on the outside looking in sometimes in class, because you’re, like, the 2 percent or 3 percent, but it was pretty cool, I would say.

Amouki,


23, Md., Democrat, administrative assistant

At the time I had applied to colleges, I was into being a doctor. And so I had to choose between the one H.B.C.U. that was close to my house and then one school with a very strong pre-med, medical school program. Everyone I spoke to, my parents and teachers, said that the strong pre-med program was a very strong selling point, so I might as well go there.

Jocelyn,


32, Pa., Democrat, entrepreneur

I always wanted to go to an H.B.C.U. I started off at an H.B.C.U., and I was there for the first two years of my schooling. And my father passed while I was in college. The tuition was just too much for a one-income household at that point. So I came back home, and I went to a predominantly white institution. Going from an H.B.C.U. to a P.W.I. was very eye opening. I had to find my space. So going back into that space conversation, I went from being in a class of 30, from the deans knowing me, the teachers knowing me, just people in other departments knowing me because of the close-knit community that we had at an H.B.C.U to being in one of 200 in just one class.

Jocelyn,


32, Pa., Democrat, entrepreneur

While I was in H.B.C.U., it felt more like a family. When my father passed, teachers reached out to me, checked on my well-being, made sure that I didn’t flunk out. And then at the P.W.I., it was not the same support. I might find support in a T.A. or a counselor, if that. But they didn’t know you as well as they did at my other school. I went to a mixed-race high school and a predominantly white middle school. So I’ve been in different spaces, and the most comfortable space and the best space I felt was in my H.B.C.U.

Stéphane,


31, Texas, independent, accountant

In terms of going to college, my main consideration was that the college had a business major. The school I ended up going to had one of the top programs. I’ve mostly been surrounded by different groups of people growing up, my home and my family and family friends being a predominantly Black space. But in my education, it’s predominantly white spaces. And I felt a great level of comfort in either one. The race factor was never the biggest consideration for me going to school. It was more like, “Am I going to have access to the best programs for what I want to learn?”

Amouki,


23, Md., Democrat, administrative assistant

It wasn’t that much of a consideration. At a certain point, all the brochures they send you kind of look the same.

Kathryn,


34, Tenn., leftist, venue manager

I grew up in Mississippi, and the school I had always been into was predominantly white. Growing up, the belief was that it’s impolite to even talk about race. So I mostly looked at the academics. But after the fact, I wish I could have looked at the experience of Black students on campus.

Kathryn,


34, Tenn., leftist, venue manager

My college is in Nashville proper, and it touts itself as more progressive-leaning than some other places in the city. But they still don’t know how to treat any of their minority groups. Like really, except for lip service on, like, “You’re welcome here.” And that’s kind of, like, where they end it.

Michael,


31, Calif., independent, I.T. associate

It was fair to me because I went to an H.B.C.U. And I feel everyone had an equal chance, since we are basically Black there. And everyone lives like we are like a community.

Celisa,


37, Tenn., Democrat, chief operating officer

The application process to my H.B.C.U. was normal. What kind of changed is, once I got in there, I realized the education that I had received in high school and middle school did not prepare me for college. So that was a huge gap in learning. Specifically in English. I did not realize how far behind I was on English until I went and did my thesis paper and realized that I couldn’t write a paper. So I ended up having to take jobs to strengthen my English, my writing skills. I forced myself to get a job where I knew that if I wanted to get paid, I had to learn how to write.

Jocelyn,


32, Pa., Democrat, entrepreneur

So I had an opposite experience. When I entered college, at the H.B.C.U. first, coming from a mixed college-prep high school, I felt like I was advanced in comparison to the other students in the freshman class. So I started to advocate to enter into higher-level classes. And I think that helped me prepare for my transition to the P.W.I.

Karis,


34, Ill., Democrat, I.T. professional

My decision to go to the University of Chicago was solely based on the fact that I had a couple of friends, Black and white, in the school. And the school actually has priority, like it had priority for students from underrepresented minority groups. So it was not so hard, and the criteria for Blacks and whites was kind of balanced.

Stéphane,


31, Texas, independent, accountant

Going through that process, being Black, I never felt like much of an advantage or disadvantage, either way. First off, I was never really aware of how much of that is even considered an admission process. I personally never felt like it had an impact. I felt more like my upbringing and socioeconomic status had more of an impact, because I went to a school that really prepared me very well to go through that admission process. I think that had more to do with feeling comfortable navigating through those waters than me being Black or not.

Kathryn,


34, Tenn., leftist, venue manager

I feel like we probably put too much emphasis on it. If it were down to the wire of my application and somebody else’s, I don’t think they’d say, “Let’s go with the Black one.” I think my experience as a Black person in the U.S., which has been affected by socioeconomic status, would lead to me being more of a possible candidate, as long as all of my academic stats were where they needed to be. Yes, it could be more beneficial for them to accept me than someone who’s always been in private schools or something like that. But I don’t think that the skin color would have been the determining factor. I don’t know anyone who received any scholarships that were based on their race or culture. There are those scholarships, but they’re not as prolific and handed out as some people assume.

Kathryn,


34, Tenn., leftist, venue manager

Anyone who probably has any negative thoughts about affirmative action. It’s

been proven that the people who benefit the most from affirmative action are actually white women, not people of color. So skin color is hardly a determining factor.

Amouki,


23, Md., Democrat, administrative assistant

I went to a P.W.I., and I didn’t really experience that much discrimination. When I got in, I was added to a minorities in medicine support group, so all the friends I made before the school year even started were people of color or Black people. And then I usually make friends based on who’s friends with my friends. And so it just kind of moved on that way. Two negative things, though. White students and Asian students have made comments about who got into Hopkins and what the reasons might be and such. The second thing, which is kind of minor but also not something to be dismissed: People don’t make way for you. It was the first time where people were just bumping into me and not saying “sorry” or anything. That was not just, like, white students; it was equally, like, white and Asian students. That was interesting to experience for the first time.

Stéphane,


31, Texas, independent, accountant

I went to a P.W.I., and my experience in terms of discrimination based on my race was pretty minimal. But it was there, mostly in the form of people making offhanded ignorant comments. It wasn’t always malicious intent but just a lack of knowledge or education on the side.

Amouki,


23, Md., Democrat, administrative assistant

Not directed at me, but there are other discussions among people, either in person or sometimes in a group chat. Screenshots get taken and then shared of people saying some percentage of the population of that specific school only got in through affirmative action. It always comes up when decisions for the next class come in — some people’s friends that don’t get in — and those arguments kind of circle back.

Stéphane,


31, Texas, independent, accountant

I think the framework and the environment which affirmative action came to be is a very different environment than the environment we live in today. Much like we update all kinds of laws and regulations, we need to make it appropriate in today’s America, which is increasingly more and more diverse.

Veronique,


36, D.C., Democrat, entrepreneur

Disjointed. I think that there’s a lot of fractured lines between generations, in terms of thinking about things as they are now.

Kathryn,


34, Tenn., leftist, venue manager

Completely ineffective. There’s people involved with the court who simply want to be right instead of caring about what is happening to the people that these laws affect. The laws don’t apply to politicians, generally speaking.

Celisa,


37, Tenn., Democrat, chief operating officer

I don’t follow the Supreme Court as much as I used to. But I will say that I do agree with what Kathryn says: It is basically about who wants to be right. No one is really talking to the everyday, average person.

Jocelyn,


32, Pa., Democrat, entrepreneur

I would be disappointed, but I wouldn’t be shocked. The status of Black people in the country is depressing. This would just solidify my feelings that the country is trying to put the white race first and for it to take priority.

Denzel,


28, N.Y., Republican, architecture

I’m concerned that it might affect Black people more than white people because I’m worried people will now be OK with low rates of minority students on campus.

Jocelyn,


32, Pa., Democrat, entrepreneur

I do believe there will be an increase in enrollment in H.B.C.U.s, which also, in my opinion, is a good thing, because that also helps with improving the school, as well.

Karis,


34, Ill., Democrat, I.T. professional

I feel like it wouldn’t have much effect on P.W.I.s or at least on the university I attended. Because on paper, at least, the university I attended, the criteria for admission were quite balanced.

Kathryn,


34, Tenn., leftist, venue manager

I think, at best, it would be able to at least hold on to economic diversity within the students, because the school that I went to does do need-blind admissions. Because of how the discrimination in this country has gone across economic lines, where it has affected people of color more, so you still might be able to have your students of color in there. But I would like to see what the same effect would do to other schools who don’t have those sorts of admissions standards.

Jocelyn,


32, Pa., Democrat, entrepreneur

I feel like my school would probably initially be very supportive of keeping the same kind of enrollment. They try to have a 48 percent to 50 percent diversity. But then, I can imagine a future in which those numbers would slowly dwindle. I say this because shortly after I graduated, the African American population dropped so low that we began to protest and petition it. And then recently, in the last three years, they’ve had the highest numbers that they had with diversity. So it wasn’t until it was brought to people’s attention and people started to speak out against it that it changed.

Stéphane,


31, Texas, independent, accountant

I think colleges are going to be doing whatever they can to increase enrollment, going forward, especially as people start to question more and more the value of a college education in an economy that changes so fast. Colleges are going to be incentivized to maintain whatever positive programs that attract all kinds of students to their schools.

Amouki,


23, Md., Democrat, administrative assistant

I wasn’t excited to vote for Biden in 2020. I’m less excited to vote for him next year. I mean, he made a bunch of promises that he didn’t keep up with, especially the codifying of Roe v. Wade. That was, like, one of the first things during his campaign that he said he would want to do. Never did. Student loan forgiveness — he said he was going to do it.

Amouki,


23, Md., Democrat, administrative assistant

I don’t like Biden, but I’m not going to start voting Republican. And I’m not going to start not voting. So I will vote for him because I feel like I have to, not because I want to.

Stéphane,


31, Texas, independent, accountant

I voted in the last two elections, and I was very unexcited about voting for Biden. He was the last person I wanted to vote for. And I’m so unexcited this time around that if it’s him and Trump again, I won’t vote for either one of them. I will probably write in somebody or vote for a third-party candidate.

Stéphane,


31, Texas, independent, accountant

His age is a major concern. I’ve seen him mentally deteriorate from when he’s V.P. to now. He is not progressive enough in terms of the values. He hasn’t fought hard enough for the student loan debt thing. That’s a very, very big issue to me.

Veronique,


36, D.C., Democrat, entrepreneur

I voted for Biden. I think that he’s actually done what he’s been allowed to do. His age is the one thing I’m concerned about. But the other evil is that we’re fighting with an illegal operative in Trump. And then DeSantis — I call him the devil.

Kathryn,


34, Tenn., leftist, venue manager

It can only get better. Right now, we’re in the time of pullback, where people are angry about woke culture and “How dare you make me say nice things to people” or “Why should I care if anyone has housing or anything like that?” We’ll eventually get past that. You know, when we got past like, “Oh, yes, it is wrong, and now it is illegal to commit hate crimes.” You know, like, now we finally at least grasp that.

Michael,


31, Calif., independent, I.T. associate

I’ll give a better grade. Because if we go back 25 years ago and where we are now, I think we’ve improved. So I’m sure in the next 25 years, there’s always room for improvement. And I see America being better.

Denzel,


28, N.Y., Republican, architecture

Yeah, I feel the same way. I feel like if you go 50 years back, it was worse. And if you go 100 years back, it was worse. So I feel like 25 years, it will slowly improve. But there’s still a lot of work that needs to be done.

Roger,


33, Texas, Democrat, real estate agent

I’ll give it a worse grade, considering that affirmative action will be gone.